Jewish-American Professor Norman Finkelstein has said Israel, a state
built
on the ashes of the Holocaust, is now committing a holocaust against
Palestinians in Gaza. American Jewish Professor Norman Finkelstein has
heavily criticized Israel over its operation in Gaza. A son of Holocaust
survivors, Finkelstein has been barred from Israel for 10 years and was
denied tenure at DePaul University in Chicago because of his critical stance
on Israeli policies.
According to Finkelstein, Israel, a state built on the ashes of the
Holocaust, is now committing a holocaust against Palestinians in Gaza. In a
telephone interview with Today's Zaman, Finkelstein said Israel was a
"terrorist state" created by the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in 1948.
Praising Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and the Turkish people for
their courage in supporting Palestinians, Finkelstein referred to Israel as
a "satanic" and "lunatic" state. Finkelstein's parents survived the Nazi
camps in World War II and then immigrated to the US.
After his book "The Holocaust Industry," in which he accused many prominent
Jewish leaders of abusing the victims of the Holocaust, was published,
Finkelstein was almost declared persona non grata by America's influential
Zionist circles.
*What does Israel want to achieve with this operation?*
Basically, Israel wants to achieve two goals: to restore what it calls its
deterrence capacity -- that means to spread fear among Arab states about
itself. This is a core principle of Israeli strategic doctrine. Arab states
have to be afraid of Israel, afraid of its military might, and Arabs should
do what Israelis want. They shall follow Israeli orders.
Israel's military deterrence suffered a setback in May 2000, when Hezbullah
succeeded to expel Israeli occupying forces from south Lebanon. Almost
immediately in the aftermath of the failure, Israel planned another war with
Hezbullah to re-establish its deterrence capacity. In 2006, after long
preparation and using its air force, Israel suffered another ignominious
defeat in Lebanon against Hezbullah.
The second goal was to defeat the Palestinian peace offensive. This has been
another basic principle of Israeli doctrine: You do not negotiate with
Arabs. You give them orders. The Palestinian organization Hamas was becoming
too moderate; it was transmitting, giving the signal that it was ready to go
along with the two-state settlement based on pre-1967 borders. The
leadership of Syria and the West Bank have also been making statements like
this. So Israel started to get worried that it would be obliged to negotiate
a settlement which the international community has been supporting for the
last 30 years.
Those who are against this settlement are the US or Israel, backed by the
US. So when Hamas was becoming moderate and holding to the cease-fire it
agreed in June 2008, it was showing herself to be a credible negotiating
partner. Hamas was standing by its word. In the meantime, Israel has
neglected another core principle of cease-fire, namely easing the blockade.
So Israel had to defeat this Palestinian peace offensive. It always does
this. It provokes Palestinians into reacting, and it wants to either destroy
Hamas or inflicts so much damage that Hamas will have to say it will never
negotiate with Israel. That is exactly what Israel wants. Israel never wants
a moderate negotiating partner because if there is one, pressure on Israel
will grow. Hamas is willing for a settlement; Hamas stands by its word. But
Israel does not want to negotiate.
*What you are basically saying is that Israel is not interested in peace at
all.*
Israel wants peace in its terms, and its terms are that West Bank should
belong to their state.
*Will the operation be successful?*
First of all, we have to use proper language. There is no operation, and
there is no war. What is happening is a slaughter, a massacre. When you have
200 to 300 kids killed, that is not a war. When you have a strong military
going in against a defenseless population, that is not a war. When you shoot
a fish in a barrel, we do not call it a war. As an Israeli columnist put it,
it does not need too much courage to send jets and helicopter gunships to
shoot inside a prison. What just happened was not a war. One-third of the
casualties were children. It was not a war; it was a just a massacre.
In terms of the Israelis' goals, you have to say it was successful. It
inspired fear among Palestinians and Arabs generally that Israel is a
lunatic state and that you have to follow its orders. No. 2, it destroys
Hamas as a negotiating partner. You now hear from Hamas that it will not
negotiate peace. That is what Israel wanted.
*On your Web site, there is an argument that the grandchildren of Holocaust
survivors are doing to the Palestinians exactly what was done to them by the
Nazis. Do you agree with that?*
I think Israel, as a number of commentators pointed out, is becoming an
insane state. And we have to be honest about that. While the rest of the
world wants peace, Europe wants peace, the US wants peace, but this state
wants war, war and war. In the first week of the massacres, there were
reports in the Israeli press that Israel did not want to put all its ground
forces in Gaza because it was preparing attacks on Iran. Then there were
reports it was planning attacks on Lebanon. It is a lunatic state.
*But do you agree with the characterization?*
Look at the pictures and decide for yourself. I am not going to tell people
what they should think about it. But what I say is they should look at the
pictures and decide for themselves. (For the pictures go to:
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=2510)
*Why have you been barred from entering Israel for 10 years? As the son of
Holocaust survivors, you cannot enter Israel. *
Let's be clear on a certain point. I was not entering Israel; I have no
interest in going to Israel. I was going to see my friends in the occupied
Palestinian territories. And Israel blocked me to go and see my friends in
the West Bank. Under international law, I do not think they have any right
to do that! I was not posing any security threat to Israel. The day after I
was denied entering Israel, the editorial of Haaretz was asking, "Who is
afraid of Norman Finkelstein?" They were also saying that I was not a
security threat. I do not have any particular interest to go and visit that
lunatic state.
*There are Jewish intellectuals who now call Israel a "terrorist state." Is
that a correct naming?*
I am not sure how you cannot agree with that. The goal of the operation was
to terrorize the civilian population so that Palestinians would be afraid of
Israel. This is the dictionary definition of terrorism. The dictionary
definition of terrorism is targeting a civilian population to achieve a
political goal. The goal of this operation or rather massacre was to
terrorize the civilian population and to wreck and destroy as much civilian
infrastructure such that the Palestinians would submit. When you attack
schools, mosques, ambulances, hospitals, UN relief organizations, what is
that? If this is not terrorism, then what is terrorism?
*In your famous book, "The Holocaust Industry," you argue that the state of
Israel, one of the world's most formidable military powers, with a
horrendous human rights record, cast itself as a victim state in order to
garner immunity to criticism. Have we seen this during the Gaza operation?*
They tried to use the Holocaust; it was funny in a very sick way. The leader
of the American Jewish Committee, David Harris, wrote an article, and he
said it is no coincidence that this war in Gaza is occurring around Jan. 27,
which is Holocaust Remembrance Day. He wants to pretend some connection. In
fact there is a connection, and the connection is Israel is committing a
holocaust in Gaza. But that is not the connection he had in mind. He wanted
to play the Holocaust card; I think that it is not working very much
anymore. It was clear that during this last massacre in Gaza, liberal Jewish
public opinion turned against Israel. If you look at the petitions,
demonstrations, letters, support to Israel, not only in the international
community but also among the Jewish community, is diminishing. So the
Holocaust card, the anti-Semitic card, is not working as efficiently as it
was working once.
*You will probably be called anti-Semitic as well.*
I do not think this propaganda is successful anymore.
*In your book "Beyond Chutzpah," you argue that Israel was created after the
ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, but the question whether it was
premeditated remains to be answered. If it is premeditated, then can it be
called genocide?*
Well, it was premeditated, and I think the record is pretty clear. Even
Israel's former minister of foreign affairs, Shlomo Ben-Ami, in his book
published several years ago called "Scars of War," said that it was quite
clear that it was a premeditated expulsion in 1948 and it was anchored in
the Zionist philosophy of transfer. Ethnic cleansings are ethnic cleansings,
and they are war crimes.
*Why do you think US media is so one-sided and so pro-Israeli? *
I think it has two components. First of all, Israel serves American
interests in the region and American media always give a free pass to those
states that serve American interests. That is the overall picture and not
much different from other parts of the world. The horrendous governments
like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, they also get free passes in the American media.
This is the larger context. And there is, of course, the secondary factor,
which is the ethnic element. In many of these newspapers and the media in
general, there is a large Jewish presence, and there is a sense of Jewish
ethnic solidarity, which plays a role. But I think we have to qualify the
secondary factor in two ways. We should not lose sight of the primary
factor, which is Israel is the client state of US. No. 2: In this past war,
the liberal Jewish population mostly under the age of 40 completely defected
from the war, the massacre. They have been opposed to the massacres from the
first day.
*Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has been very critical of
Israel on Gaza, and some American circles lambasted him in return. What do
you think about his stance?*
I wish he had done further. I wish he had gone as far as Qatar, Mauritania,
Bolivia and Venezuela in breaking diplomatic relations with that lunatic
state. But as far as he has gone, the point on which he stands, has been
terrific. And I was glad to see Hamas respected the gestures of the Turkish
government and said they would be willing to have Turkish troops stationed
on "our border." That is a very high praise for the Turkish government.
Turks are showing Palestinians compassion, decency and justice. All the
Turkish people should take pride of this stance as was the case on the eve
of the American invasion of Iraq in 2003. It was the Turkish people and
government who showed courage. Ninety-six percent of Turkish people opposed
the war in Iraq. The Turkish government refused to give Americans use of
their land to attack Iraq. Now Turkish people and Turkish government are
redeeming themselves again by standing on what is right, what is decent and
what is just. I say the highest praise for Erdoğan and the Turkish people.
*How do you feel about Israel's operation in Gaza personally as the son of
Holocaust survivors?*
It has been a long time since I felt any emotional connection with the state
of Israel, which relentlessly and brutally and inhumanly keeps these
vicious, murderous wars. It is a vandal state. There is a Russian writer who
once described vandal states as Genghis Khan with a telegraph. Israel is
Genghis Khan with a computer. I feel no emotion of affinity with that state.
I have some good friends and their families there, and of course I would not
want any of them to be hurt. That said, sometimes I feel that Israel has
come out of the boils of the hell, a satanic state. Ninety percent of the
population continues to cheer, to exalt and feel proud and heroic. They send
a Sherman tank to a playground and torch children. Is this heroism? Is this
courage?
*You were not allowed to teach at DePaul University despite a very good
academic record and also had some problems in getting your Ph.D. from
Princeton. Why?*
Well, I had some problems. I really cannot discuss my problems in the face
of what is going on in Gaza. It will be so silly, trivial and stupid. Three
hundred or so children -- they were incinerated to death; phosphor bombs
were thrown indiscriminately over Gaza. Everything these people wanted to
rebuild, rebuild and rebuild was destroyed again. This state invaded in
1978, again in 1982, again in 1993, again in 1996, again in 2006, and 2008,
and it always destroys, destroys and destroys. And then these satanic
narcissistic people throw their hands up in the air and ask, "Why doesn't
anybody love us? Why don't our neighbors want us to be here?" Why would
they?
19 January 2009, Monday
SELÇUK GÜLTAŞLI BRUSSELS
source: tukey news
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